Curse

badfish34668 · Jan 25, 2007, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by -.-

That would nice. I would be able to make lots of money off it.

for a day.....until everyone and their mother farmed them into oblivion.

Dancing Blade · Jan 25, 2007, 07:16 AM // 07:16

a req 8 inscribable is definately worth more than a req 8 15>50 non-inscribable because you can make it 15>50 too plus you are able change it to e.g. 15 while enchanted whenever your build needs it.

i don't think non-inscribable will be worth more because of nostalgic value...

Arcane De Farad · Jan 25, 2007, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Well i had weapon mod 10/10 sundering for bow... sold for 100k to guy who was nostalgic

.

Anyway thats good thingie. If Anet wanna drop down prices of items they shoud make all weapons like that

. Or maybe its photoshop ? :P

Yichi · Jan 25, 2007, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dancing Blade

a req 8 inscribable is definately worth more than a req 8 15>50 non-inscribable because you can make it 15>50 too plus you are able change it to e.g. 15 while enchanted whenever your build needs it.

i don't think non-inscribable will be worth more because of nostalgic value...

wrong. the non inscribable weapons will always be worth more simply for the fact that it HAD to drop like that, not it can be made into that.

zwei2stein · Jan 25, 2007, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by bart

as somebody mentioned earlier and seeing the direction Anet is going, sooner or later we will be seeing a green crystalline.

So what?

Green Sephis didnt do much
Green Sickle ditto.

It is not like that is gonna change a thing.

Akhilleus · Jan 25, 2007, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by SodOffShotgun

But you're assuming that ANET made these changes simply because people were complaining about not being able to get these rare items. Where exactly is the proof of this? Maybe that's just the direction they've always leaned towards.

And most complaints come from these power traders and farmers who don't like these changes. You see a lot more threads pop up about how their items are worthless now more than you'd see threads of people asking ANET to make rare items easier to get. And people who are for the inscriptions, only complain as a reaction to the anti-inscriptionist's complaints.

uh, no.
most of the "omg my items are worthless" threads come from the middle-class. do NOT mistake my posts worrying for the longevity of the game and the health of its economy for complaints of personal loss. if i were such a greedy bastard, i wouldnt have quit trading 8 months ago.

Quote:

And really, this game has always been about making it casual. That's the bottomline. I know that there's the whole "achievement" thing going on with flaunting your millions on a sword but I dont understand the outrage and suprise considering that this has always been more of a casual game. That's my point here.

if we're all such big-dick ego-tards who do nothing all day long but spam OMG IM BETTER THAN YOU BECAUSE I OWN BLAH BLAH BLAH, then why is it a VERY large portion of people i talk too regularly have no clue i own what i do? and even if they know i have it, they've probably never seen it unless they've asked too.
and the same goes for many others who own expensive things.
the fact of the matter is most wealthy players are the OPPOSITE of RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO-eyed egotistical morons...we tend to be more withdrawn about our tendancies than people would think, because every time you say something like i own an 8 15.50, or a no conditional or X amount of ecto, you make yourself more well known to scammers and hackers...and thats not a good thing. not to mention that you come off as a prick.
almost everyone i talk too in-game would also tell you i am very, very polite and more than willing to answer a simple question that would probably prompt an "OMFG newb" statment form some guy using green weapons. my point? just because someones wealthy, doesnt mean they are an ass. this just shows that you are being the judgemental one here.

Quote:

You're making a LOT of assumptions and speculations with that statement there. You're saying that the "oldest most loyal players" are the ones who have tons of money and crystallines swords up the wazoo. That's insulting to the rest of the "loyal" customers. I doubt the majority of old players have that kind of wealth. So maybe Anet IS thinking about it's loyal players and that's the rest of the players.
And really, playing a lot for lots of wealth has nothing to do with your loyalty to Anet. You just like it and so you do it.

re-read the following, please.

Quote:

and i can guarantee you most of the anti-inscriptionists in this thread do not own perfect crystallines.
this is just another mark in the LONG list of things anet has done to alienate some of its oldest most loyal players,

you are right though, a majority of the old players do not own 8 15>50s and a good percentage probably want them, but they are less likely to bitch and moan for handouts.
for over a year i was one of the most active pursuers of an 8 15.50 crystalline in the game of guildwars, i compiled a list of virtually everyone who had one uncustomized and tried to convince them to swing it my way. and NOT ONCE did i expect anet to hand it to me just because i wanted it and was having difficulties obtaining it. even before i owned one i would have been the first in line to argue against making a green version, or making them inscriptable, even though it arguably would have benifited me at the time.
MOST of the people on my side of the argument do not own an 8 15.50...and theres a good chance they never will. yet they support the ability to have a goal to reach.

i was stating that this is yet another thing that anet has done to cast out the loyal players.
i dont recall saying that all old and loyal players were wealthy. do not diliberatly misquote me again, it was very, very obvious what i meant here.
among the list of things they've done:

murderous skill changes: this isnt as bad because its almost expected, and eventually people recover and make new builds

announcing the ability to buy extra character slots, more than a year after the games release. i cant tell you how many people bought muiltiple accounts and were frustrated by this one...not ebcause they didnt like the feature, but because they didnt get a chance to use it from day 1.

allowing people to purchase pvp unlocks: this one pissed off A LOT of dedicated pvpers who had been playing since the begining. in pvp having 100% UAX used to be both something that was hard to achieve, and a sign of dedication to the pvp mechanic of the game...and all of a sudden anyone with a few extra bucks could have what they had spent a year working on.

making inscriptions on non-ch3 skins: as i predicted (correctly) in the origional anti-inscription thread this tanked many of the item prices in the game...most notably those of the middle-class, as collecters (the wealthiest players) would still pay top dollar for uninscripted versions due to the rarity, but middle-class items got hit hard, and a slew of threads popped up saying "omg my items are worthless i cant sell crap, blah, blah blah." why do i not feel sorry for them?
because they were largely the same people who wanted them to begin with.

not allowing inscriptions to be put into old armors: this is one thing that virtually everyone thought was a good idea, and that more or less absolutly no harm could come from, and yet they refrained from doing it for some reason.

[

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dancing Blade

It's very obvious that the old crystallines will lose value since the new inscribable ones are both - rarer (there are a lot of the old crytallines around and it will take months until theres a remotely comparable supply of the new ones) AND more useful (you can customize them completely to your needs as many times as you want).

I understand that some owners of old crystallines don't like that development and want to "talk up" the value of them. But that's irrational and i don't think people will fall for this since the new inscribable crystallines are both rarer and more versatile...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dancing Blade

a req 8 inscribable is definately worth more than a req 8 15>50 non-inscribable because you can make it 15>50 too plus you are able change it to e.g. 15 while enchanted whenever your build needs it.

i don't think non-inscribable will be worth more because of nostalgic value...

for starters, dont confuse numerical inferiority with rarity.
lets say tomorrow they intriduce a new green item...for a few hours there will be less of them than there are no conditional weapons, 8 15.50 crystallines and perfect magmas shields in the game, so by your definition they would be rarer, and thus worth more.
uh...no?
EVERY valuable(i say this because there are some that are just so cheap that it doesnt matter either way) skin that has both an inscripted and uninscripted counterpart will observe the UNINSCRIPTED version being worth more.
why? for the exact reason you think they'd be worth less; they arent as versatile.
because they arent versatile, and ebcause their mods cannot be altered, it is harder to get an uninscripted one with the mods you want thus forcing you to...dun dun dun, pay more for it.
and give it time (not much time, even) and perfect inscripted crystallines would far outnumber uninscripted ones, just because you can take any crappily modded crystalline witha decent requirement and mod it to taste...effectivly ruining their own prices.

the token noob · Jan 25, 2007, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Never understood all the comments about the crystalline being ugly. Compared to .. gladius, falchion, brute sword(aka a popsicle stick) and soooo many others it looks a lot better. Sorry just that is the one weapon that gets more hate on looks than any other I know of.

SodOffShotgun · Jan 25, 2007, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

uh, no.
most of the "omg my items are worthless" threads come from the middle-class. do NOT mistake my posts worrying for the longevity of the game and the health of its economy for complaints of personal loss. if i were such a greedy bastard, i wouldnt have quit trading 8 months ago.

if we're all such big-dick ego-tards who do nothing all day long but spam OMG IM BETTER THAN YOU BECAUSE I OWN BLAH BLAH BLAH, then why is it a VERY large portion of people i talk too regularly have no clue i own what i do? and even if they know i have it, they've probably never seen it unless they've asked too.
and the same goes for many others who own expensive things.
the fact of the matter is most wealthy players are the OPPOSITE of RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO-eyed egotistical morons...we tend to be more withdrawn about our tendancies than people would think, because every time you say something like i own an 8 15.50, or a no conditional or X amount of ecto, you make yourself more well known to scammers and hackers...and thats not a good thing. not to mention that you come off as a prick.
almost everyone i talk too in-game would also tell you i am very, very polite and more than willing to answer a simple question that would probably prompt an "OMFG newb" statment form some guy using green weapons. my point? just because someones wealthy, doesnt mean they are an ass. this just shows that you are being the judgemental one here.

Wow. Calm down. I never called you any of those bad labels that you've spouted. My post didnt contain any judgemental opinions on what you do with your gold so I don't know why you're bringing all that up. Show me where in my post where I said you were an ass.

Dzus · Jan 25, 2007, 10:54 AM // 10:54

To the OP:

Why should something that is core be exempt from new changes?

FoW can bear insignias, weapons/offhands can bear inscriptions.

Jetdoc · Jan 25, 2007, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by the token noob

Never understood all the comments about the crystalline being ugly. Sorry just that is the one weapon that gets more hate on looks than any other I know of.

It is human nature to justify not having something by criticizing it.

the_jos · Jan 25, 2007, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Well you can skew the interpretation in whichever way you want. It's pointless for me to talk about it any further if you're in denial.

Don't think I'm in denial.
But all people who are in denial tend to say that

I think we both have an other feeling about the nuances in the English language.

Quote:

Also, this is more of a thread of people complaining that crystallines are now inscriptable rather than people "complaining" about having to work. I for one, have said plenty of times that I dont care for the sword or any other "uber" item. And I've mostly seen people supporting the inscription idea, NOT complaining.

Lucky for me I'm not really complaining.
I've seen this coming for a long time.
A-net has taken various attempts to lower the prices on items like the tripple green weekends, the chest weekends with double golds and tripple key drops and that kind of stuff.
The inscriptions are also part of this.

With the introduction of heroes, people started to customize their heroes, so that did probably have some impact on the prices (for sure on the blood stained insignia, which was about 8K when I last looked at the price).
But prices will probably decline in the future.

I think it's good for general gameplay that the 'normal' items are in reach for all players.
Inscriptions are part of that, I don't oppose to them.

I have very mixed feelings on the inscriptions on the markets high-end weapons (skins) like the crystalline.
A req 9 15^50 max is as good as any other req 9 15^50 sword in the game.
So on that side there was no need to introduce the inscribable item.

When a 15^50 inscribable drops, it's no problem at all.
It's as rare as the original one, I pressume.
It's a gold crystalline with no or other inscription that causes the problem.
People can modify that one to 15^50, therefore creating more on the market.

Now, how does this influence me?
Not at al.
I'm a Joe Average player with some cash and no interest in collecting the high-price weapons.
I use greens, purples and some golds as weapons, stuff I cannot use sits in my inventory or I just give it away.
Most of my weapons are drops I collected, I have bought only a few from other players.
I do have a crystalline, but I won't sell it. I'll probably give it away when I get tired of the thing.

Why do I care?
I do care because I know what kind of impact this change has on the collector players.
There are people that play this game because they want to reach something besides the titles you can get.
One of those goals is high-priced rare skinned weapons.
Taking that oppertunity away does impact the way people feel about the game.
It's like you collect car models and have a few very rare ones missing.
And suddenly they appear all over the market.
Collecting is not only about owning, it's about the search for items.
When the search part is gone, the fun of collecting is gone.

The average player does not care about those items.
Just as the average stamp collector does not know or care about the Penny Black.
When they know about it, they know they will have to save up for it
And it might be out of range, since it's rare, people that own it won't give it up that easy.
That's not a problem, it's still a goal.
When they have obtained the stamp, they can set an other goal (get the unused version).

I don't think there is any need to take that market away.
It's very small, compared to the total GW player base.
The average player is not infuenced by this market.
They can get anything they want and even 'better' things than the people that are playing since the start of GW.
They can get an 15^50 sword with +30hp and vamp at a fraction of the value a year ago.

I think that's what hurts the long term players the most.
They have worked hard to get some items that declined in value very fast.
The Superior Vigor rune was very expensive once (still is, but not close to what it's been). The +30HP, +5E on staff, 20/20 sundering, vampiric and that kind of upgrades are cheap.
All those items do influence gameplay.
The more gold you had, the better you could perform (important on PvP, less in PvE).

And now A-net is modifying one of the few items that still has the old value.
The complain is part sentimental value.
But also a signal that A-net should value long time players.
Those are the ones that spread the word and made GW the game it is today.
The birthday presents are a way to show that, but keeping some of the memories alive also does.

Tarkin · Jan 25, 2007, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

You do not read

who cares about inscriptions?

15^50 crystalines whose 15 does NOT come from inscription are point here.

Value of original perfect crystalines got major buff, and will continue to raise.

Not personal zwei2stein lots of people say original 15%^ better i just pick you to say...
How wants a car thats only turn to right? "Oooo i love the only right car i will work for 1 year to buy the good only right car", no way...
This my personal opinion, but i belive that prices of non scrip will drop...
And to finish... "who cares about inscriptions?"... some people cares... because they not dumb... think in future... new mods... one update can erase all value of a 10kk crystalline...

reetkever · Jan 25, 2007, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzus

To the OP:

Why should something that is core be exempt from new changes?

FoW can bear insignias, weapons/offhands can bear inscriptions.

If that's the case, why not change Prophecies and Factions weapons as well?

Insignia's as a whole was a bad move by A-net IMO.

Armor does not count because they are always in the game, and therefore don't have a rarity. I really can't see the point in insignia's, at all. Why give rare weapons with perfect mods to everyone, and with that make them look like cheap ****?

One of the problems in this game is that everything can be obtained TOO easy. When I was a newb, I had to work my @$$ off for a good weapon, and boy was I proud of my first max damage weapon, a green Stinger bought for 10K. Players today don't have to work anymore for what they get. Everything gets cheaper, and people get max damage stuff everywhere.

Even with that, people still have greens and collector's weapons, and with that, there is NO NEED for gold weapons. Gold items have changed from something good into a status weapon, only the richer people can afford a good skin. But with the inscriptions, everyone can get perfect gold items as well, taking the gold items down to the level of green and collector's weapons - the level that everyone can obtain it without doing alot of work.

milias · Jan 25, 2007, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

most of the "omg my items are worthless" threads come from the middle-class.

But but but, I like being the middle class

Well, I think I will be on welfare soon at the rate the market is depreciating

Z'HA'DUM · Jan 25, 2007, 03:40 PM // 15:40

why is everyone getting so puffed up over something that is made of endless 1's and 0's ? its ridiculous, really...

Anghardel · Jan 25, 2007, 04:28 PM // 16:28

I've read through a decent portion of this thread, and I think that my favorite post concerning the introduction - permanent or not - of inscribable crystalline swords into the game, the one that says it best, references a type of craft and it's model representative.

My grandfather owns a Shelby Cobra. His is a real, original cobra (a cobra of the same design: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...elby-Cobra.jpg ). It is a semi-rare automobile. A beautiful piece of machinery. His cobra is still all original, exactly what he wanted for a very, very long time. He invested a hell of a lot of money into it, and has left it unrestored because he enjoys the history of it.

The cobra I believe the poster was referencing is, of course, Shelby's personal racing Cobra - on which the developement of the subsequent cobras was based. This auto sold for 5.5 million dollars (article: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...70122009&imw=Y ).

Here is a Replica of a (in this case, an inscribable crystalline) 1965 Shelby Cobra and its price. Keep in mind that it appears just like the real deal, and that you can customize it to operate in an almost perfectly imitative way: http://ww2.collectorcartraderonline....=Shelby--Cobra

The prices between the real deal, with their history (Shelby's sale price is an outlier, but the real deal cobras still sell for prices that are far beyond what you will pay for a replica), and the copies, which look and feel as nice, but are not originals, cannot compare. Both are expensive - as inscribable, and non-inscribable Crystallines are - but it's very obvious that their historical value is much more important.

Think on Crystallines in this way. Inscribable or not, they are very rare. Because of this, they will both remain high-priced pieces of equipment.

There is, however, a certain fanfare and prestige to be had from an original Crystalline from the "old days." Everyone here seems to be using "req.8 15^50" as the example to be tossed back and forth, so consider that.

The crystalline skin is not the best or most beautiful in the game. There are plenty of swords that look much better than it does; take Zodiac, for example. Put a req. 8 15^50 Zodiac sword next to a req. 8 15^50 Crystalline sword and compare the two. While both are pricey, which do you think will come out on top? It won't have anything to do with skin, it'll have something to do with rarity. (as a disclaimer, I am sure that there are plently of people who find Crystalline more appealing than Zodiac).

The crystalline sword has, to my knowledge, always been a collector sword. Even with the introduction of an inscribable version, I don't forsee it becoming something that a "casual player" will be having, unless Anet raises the drop rate. It's that drop rate, which is very low, that boost the sales of the Crystalline sword. As the sword is primarily a collector item, nostalgia is very, very much a concern.

Take it from a collector, me. I, cheesily enough, collect fishing reels. I have an old version of the same type of reel used to catch a Blue catfish weighing 105 pounds, which, at the time, was the South Carolina state record. My reel is exactly the same as the reel used. It, however, is a replica of that reel. I believe the reel is in a South Carolina wildlife house somewhere in our state. I wouldn't be able to afford it if it were up for auction, and even if I could, it would be exponentially more expensive than the one I currently own.

There is a similar nostalgia to be had from the non-inscribable "perfect" crystalline swords. They may not be unique, like the fishing reel after which mine is patterened, but they are extremely rare, just like my grandfather's Cobra, and because of this they will fetch a very high price among the crowd that they appeal to the most - the Collector's. For a sword like a crystalline, customizability has NOTHING to do with the collector appeal.

Just like in the world outside of guild wars, there are many levels of collector within guild wars. There are collectors of old cars who simply collect replicas of them, and there are collector who will settle for nothing less than original perfection. The crystalline sword collectors are going to be the same way. Some will be satisfied with just having one, even if it's inscribable. Others, like myself, would never buy one unless it dropped with that perfect inherent damage mod, no matter how pricey it is.

- - -

From a user's standpoint, inscribable crystallines are the way to go. From the point of view of a true blue collector, you can't replicate original perfection, no matter how similar the appearance and functionality. I think the Crystalline sword skin is Butt Fugly, but if I had the cash and one was available I would buy it. I wouldn't purchase an inscribable version because I don't plan on using it. I would purchase the version that was the rarest, because that is what collecting an item like this sword is about. I would use it, but I wouldn't buy it for that particular purpose.

Dancing Blade · Jan 25, 2007, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

wrong. the non inscribable weapons will always be worth more simply for the fact that it HAD to drop like that, not it can be made into that.

Yeah, that's why the old HoD Swords and 10/10 sundering weapons are still going for 100k+.

I will pay more for a req 8 inscribable than a req 8 15>50 anyday because it's just better and rarer.

If you're just a collector who likes to collect stuff thats not ingame anymore because it was replaced by something superior like 10/10 sundering etc. then i guess theres a reason to want those old crystallines. But if you want to actually use the items on your char the new ones are the choice imho.

SirErnieMacGloop · Jan 25, 2007, 04:54 PM // 16:54

I wonder what the hubbub will be when the first req 7 or 8 inscribables are dropped out of the HoH chest.....

* though I haven't seen a max req7/8 out of the HoH chest I have seen req7/8 max inscribables elsewhere

Yichi · Jan 25, 2007, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzus

To the OP:

Why should something that is core be exempt from new changes?

FoW can bear insignias, weapons/offhands can bear inscriptions.

they arent core. where is the proof of them dropping in NF or Cantha? As far as we all know, the Crystaline, Dwarven, and Serpent axe (just ot name a few that drop from that chest) are all prophecies only as there ahs never been any proof that they dropped in the other 2 chapters.

The Herbalizer · Jan 25, 2007, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirErnieMacGloop

I wonder what the hubbub will be when the first req 7 or 8 inscribables are dropped out of the HoH chest.....

* though I haven't seen a max req7/8 out of the HoH chest I have seen req7/8 max inscribables elsewhere

I have seen a max damage req 7 purple crystalline sword.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dancing Blade

Yeah, that's why the old HoD Swords and 10/10 sundering weapons are still going for 100k+.

I will pay more for a req 8 inscribable than a req 8 15>50 anyday because it's just better and rarer.

If you're just a collector who likes to collect stuff thats not ingame anymore because it was replaced by something superior like 10/10 sundering etc. then i guess theres a reason to want those old crystallines. But if you want to actually use the items on your char the new ones are the choice imho.

No it is not rarer than a Req 8 15>50 non-inscriptable one.

Jeez, posts like the above really make me wonder about how people can possibly come to such conclusions...

ANY Req 8 Crystalline inscriptable sword can become 15>50 now. IF Req 8 inscriptable do drop that is. So the following Req 8 Gold Crystallines can become 15>50: -
14% Stance
15% Stance
17% Hexed (I think come in gold)
18% Hexed
19% Hexed
20% Hexed
14% Enchant
15% Enchant
14>50
14% vs Hexed
15% vs Hexed
17<50 (I think come in gold)
18<50
19<50
20<50
No inherent dmg mod

So all of the above which previously were non-inscriptable drop as inscriptable at the same rate. Therefore there will be waaaay more req 8 inscriptable crystalline swords on the market which can be 15>50. So 15>50 r8 is rarer than inscriptable one.

And if people would be willing to pay more than what a non-inscriptable one then they would have to pay more than 100k+1750 ectos as that is what I am still willing to pay.

@ Mistress Yichi: serpents drop in factions in newb island